About the only similarities between the two are high wing, tandem seating
pushers. First thing you have to decide is what your mission is. If you
like just tooling around the countryside, especially in Summer with the
doors off, go with the Challenger. It's easier to build and costs less
also. If you want to feel like you're flying your own fighter jet, do mild
aerobatics (or be comforted in the fact that it's strong enough to do so),
have the reliablility of a 4-stroke, and draw a crowd at any airport, get a
Titan.
There seems to be a natural progression from Challengers to Titans. You'll
find a bunch of former Challenger drivers on this list. Most of the time a
guy wants to go bigger, faster and further (kinda like 2-foot-itus in
boats).
The best thing you can do is to fly both as much as you can. Where are you
located? Also look at support when you're considering the "off" brands.
Both Challenger and Titan have robust e-mail lists and there are thousands
of people ready to help.
J.D.
_____
From: Titanaircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Titanaircraft@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of ls78705
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 10:20 AM
To: Titanaircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Titanaircraft] Re: Titan characteristics
--- In Titanaircraft@ <mailto:Titanaircraft%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "v2twin" <v2twin@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all. I have been lurking in the group for a couple weeks, and have a
question. Due to medical issues, looks like I will be letting my medical
lapse and fly SP. Have about 5000 hours in GA aircraft, single and twin,
lately a couple hundred hours in the last few years in a Piper Arrow. I have
narrowed my short list to Challenger 2, Titan, Excalibur and another
Challenger clone I can't recall. Unfortunately, once I make a decision I
will probably not be able to see my choice in person. The only aircraft I
have seen in the flesh is the Titan.
>
> SO - anybody have any experience in both Challenger and Titan and want to
talk about the differences between them? How they 'feel'? I have read the
specs, I'm interested in a 'seat-of-the-pants' feel. Or just the Titan by
itself? I think I want a Titan 2, as there are sometimes I want a passenger.
How comfortable is the back of the Titan1, I see a lot of people put jump
seats back there. Is the 503 adequate, or do you need bigger? Anyone nervous
about flying with a two-stroke? And last, with the 582, what is the
difference between red head, blue head, gray head?
>
> Thanks in advance for any answers.
>
I had to let my medical go about 8 years ago (age 37 - I went down young!)
and it's definitely not the end of your flying career. I've probably
accumulated another 500 or so hours since then...
As for the Challenger I can't comment as I've not flown in one. JD Stewart
who's on the list, tho, has loads of flight time in both planes as do some
of the other listers, so they'll probably comment on the differences.
IMO, tho, the tornado is about the best you can do in the LSA class. The
others I've looked at all have some kind of problem that the tornado does
better. Typically they cost too much, have a crappy view, unknown histories,
unknown factory support, too much (or too little) stuff in the panel, etc.
Other alternatives are planes like trikes, which I personally love, but
they're weight-shift and can still cost a fortune, etc.
I have the factory prototype II SS (built by JD and I bought it from him) so
all my tornado experience is in that particular model.
The overall performance envelope is approximately like the C 150/152, but
with 10x more climb ;). It also has slightly less dynamic roll stability
than the typical spam can due to the zero-dihedral wing but it's otherwise
like flying anything else that has reduced yaw-roll coupling and a
no-dihedral wing. It doesn't do anything weird in flight and is very docile
(even cross-controlled stalls give no surprises). Mine has the 26' wing so
I'd call its roll rate "stately" compared to the shorter wings (which I've
only observed from the ground or on youtube ;)) but still has lots of
authority given the aileron spades.
The II S and SS are pretty much 912/jabiru class planes tho, so if you want
to run a 2-stroke you're probably only going to want to consider the small
single.
As for 2-strokes, I flew the rotax 503 for about a decade. IMO, it's the
best deal in aviation for 50hp to crank a prop and the best 2-stroke
available period, full stop. At 4 large new it's _dirt_ cheap for 50 hp
compared to its competitors (tho you still have to buy a gearbox).
I don't like the 582 however. It's a bit suped up and isn't as reliable as
the 503, especially if it's underpowered for the plane. The crankshaft is
the weak spot on the 582, the rest of the motor is great tho. I'd personally
fly one but only if it's enough power on the plane to not have to run it
hard all the time (i.e. 5400 rpm cruise or less). I also still have my
2-stroke toolset too, so....
As for the differences in the 582:
- grey head: the older model 582 prior to 1999 or so.
- blue head: post 99 model with a redesigned cooling system and some changes
to the RV shaft setup (it's a rotary valve induction 2-stroke; the 503 and
447 are piston-skirt induction).
- red head: this is not an aviation model, it's based on a sno-mo engine
with single ignition and, with the snomo exhaust, generates a LOT more
power. I have no idea about the reliability of this one except to say it's
pretty suped up. I'd personally avoid the red head as it's a conversion
which can affect resale, insurance, etc.
I'd say the 503 seems to be adequate for a Titan I as long as you build it
light. Guy Truex (former owner of Titan a/c) flew a titan I all over the
place with a 503, so he can probably comment on this a lot more informed
than me.
Finally, the only drawback to the 2-strokes is the maintenance schedule. You
have to pull them off and do a teardown/cleanup at least every 300 hours and
typically more like 150 hours. Leaky crank seals are the achilles heel here.
Fortunately, the engines are so simple that this isn't a terrible job if you
get factory training and invest in the toolset. Or you can send the motor to
one of the 2-stroke experts in the country and they can do it for you.
With the 912 series, you do get very spoiled very quickly at not having to
do this tho.
That's my take on it. Good luck and if you select the Titan I think you'll
have gotten the best LSA available...
LS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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