Re: [Titanaircraft] Re: Any Tornado S or SS for sale in US or Canada

Ls,

I agree, and believe me you don't have to sell me on the titan SS because I am a bigger guy and the performance i have heard is pretty awesome.  Honestly I don't think the so called competitors are selling to hot as well.  I saw a sonex that was a sharp plane but it had no room in it, for me to fly it would make it a single seater just not big enough.

I have  never flown in an SS but someday I will.
Take care and happy flying

________________________________
From: ls78705 <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
To: Titanaircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 29, 2009 9:01:01 AM
Subject: [Titanaircraft] Re: Any Tornado S or SS for sale in US or Canada

 

--- In Titanaircraft@ yahoogroups. com, David King <pastordave45@ ...> wrote:
>
> LS,
>
> That is why the SS isn't turning over, it has went up to high with economy like it is.  I love those planes, but couldn't sink 50 grand into it, just couldn't happen unless i got a money tree somewhere.  I think this is representative of most, they love the planes, but just can't afford them.
>
> Dave

Hi Dave,

The small sample size also makes it hard to determine market value too. We just don't have that many SS's even built and flying, much less for sale. That just makes it hard for a price to settle in.

The other thing of course is the cost of new. Just to get an SS kit with a 912uls is at least 43K if you go by the quick-pricing charts on titan's website. But that doesn't include avionics, options, etc, which is going to easily push that into the 50 or more grand range. And you haven't even built the plane yet!

That adds more complexity to the value of used planes. For instance, in my case, the main (but only) downside to mine is that I'm not the original builder. So I have to get the annual done or at least supervised by an AnP - this just makes me cringe for months leading up to when I have to take it in. Especially when they get anywhere near my 20K plus engine with a wrench that they have no idea about how to inspect or maintain. Not too worried about the airframe, but I don't want em anywhere near my engine so I have to muscle in when it comes to inspecting that. Overall, all this is a pain in the butt.

But.... as the cost of replacement skyrockets, it becomes less and less a viable option, even with the downsides. That increases (significantly) the amount I'd accept if I were to try to sell it. In fact, up to the point that noone would reasonably buy it for what I'd want for it! So, I came to my senses and just slap took the plane off the selling block period. Even if the AnP strips out the spark plug threads in a head or does something else stupid, fixing that is still far cheaper than trying to replace.....
And since JD built it, it's an airframe I can trust for a long long time.

One other final aspect to all this that adds complexity to the price: the alternatives. If you think the SS is expensive at 50 large, that's _dirt cheap_ compared to its competitors that offer similar flight characteristics.
There's no prebuilt kit plane that has anything like the flight envelope of an S or SS available anywhere for under twice what they cost.

The kit competitors are in the neighborhood of the cost, but virtually all have some kind of compromise that the titan does better. I.e. most are front-engined tractors and thus have a poor view. Those get boring to fly pretty quick even tho they might go a little faster or have some special handling characteristics.

I.e. I flew to taos, NM and back day before yesterday and the view was simply spectacular in my plane, better than anything else I've flown in that can take a trip like that in a reasonable amount of time.

The standard category alternatives have their problems too. I.e. the purchase price, tho it may be lower than the titan, is the cheapest part on those. Cost of operation and maintenance on a standard category over time will make your hair stand on end. Either that or they don't meet LSA (and still cost a fortune to fly).

So, to sum up..... valuating our planes is pretty complicated. I've been researching this for a long time and the bang/buck ratio is still very very good on the titan, especially the S and SS....

LS

>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: ls78705 <lstavenhagen@ ...>
> To: Titanaircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sun, November 29, 2009 7:40:24 AM
> Subject: [Titanaircraft] Re: Any Tornado S or SS for sale in US or Canada
>
>  
>
>
> --- In Titanaircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Terry Savage" <chaosrider@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > I dunno.back when I was keeping track of Titan prices on Barnstormers, I saw
> > a number of 2S listed for under $30K. Of course, I can't testify to their
> > condition, since I never inspected any of them. I'm sure they're out there,
> > just based on the data I saw then.
> >
>
> Everything's gone up since then. Even with the economic downturn, under 30K is generally just the I's and II's and the occasional fixer-upper here and there.
>
> The cost of new has crept up probably 5 to even 10 grand since I bought my plane a few years ago. That's assuming the 912 series engines which keep on jacking up and up. The jabirus seem to be holding fairly steady tho.
>
> Course, so far the couple of the SS fleet that are for sale aren't moving, so we're probably still trying to find the market price for those. Either that or Bob and Don, etc. are still having too much fun with them ;)
>
> I was thinking about selling mine for a while but finally came to my senses here a few months ago. With all the costs of new going up replacement is less and less a good idea and the plane is too good and too much fun to get rid of. Unless catastrophe strikes or something, I kind of don't want to know what mine's worth ;).
>
> LS
> LS
> >
> >
> > I never saw a 2SS for under $30K, though.
> >
> >
> >
> > TCS
> >
> > Question with Boldness -- Thomas Jefferson
> >
> > Hold to the Truth -- George Washington
> >
> > Speak Without Fear -- Martin Luther King
> >
> >
> >
> > Terry C Savage
> >
> > Senior Information Technology Manager
> >
> > Science Fiction Author
> >
> > The End of Winter
> >
> > Circle of Fire
> >
> > <http://tinyurl. com/end-of- winter-savage>
> > http://tinyurl. com/end-of- winter-savage
> >
> > http://tcsendofwint er.blogspot. com/
> >
> > <http://tcsendofwint er.blogspot. com/>
> >
> >
> >
> > ============ ========= ========= ======
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Titanaircraft@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Titanaircra ft@ yahoogroups. com]
> > On Behalf Of Kimberly Panos
> > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:53 AM
> > To: Titanaircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: Re: [Titanaircraft] Any Tornado S or SS for sale in US or Canada
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, a Tornado 2S for under $30k is very unlikely, and a 2SS for
> > under $30k is likely impossible. Just a kit for an SS is $20k, and a 912
> > with its support equipment alone is more than $20k by itself. Then add
> > avionics, assembly and paint. Just the box of parts, instruments, avionics
> > and paint without any labor for a 2S costs more than $50k, and the 2SS over
> > $55k.
> >
> > --Kimberly
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kimber Bennett
> > To: titanaircraft@ <mailto:titanaircra ft%40yahoogroups .com> yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:34 PM
> > Subject: [Titanaircraft] Any Tornado S or SS for sale in US or Canada
> >
> > Looking to purchase a Tornado S or SS for trainer with a Rotax 912 under
> > $30,000.oo. Must be flying, and in good condition. Anyone have one they are
> > thinking of selling. Pictures would be appreciated!
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
> > http://go.microsoft <http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691815>
> > .com/?linkid= 9691815
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
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