>
> Yeah. I thought you were talking used.
>
> I'm not sure about 'fixing' the Jabirus. They do upgrades when they see fit, and have many fewer AD's than the 912's.
>
> --Kimberly
>
Yeah upgrade is the term I should have used ;). Having monitored the Jab forum it still looks like a fair number of bugs are being worked out of them and some things look a little scary (high oil usage and some fairly hefty failures, etc).
Even so you're right about the 912... I'm already sort of making my long term plans for when my II SS starts getting close to TBO on the motor and etc., and I'm very strongly leaning towards a new project Also, I want to be able to do my own annuals going forward which is another incentive to replace eventually.
But I really want to start getting away from the 912 anyway - the USD is a little more stable against the Aussie dollar than it is against the Euro. The 912 is a great motor but I'm tired of everything that could be a problem on it costing over a thousand dollars at the bare minimum. It doesn't look like I'm ever going to be that rich ;).
So the plan I'm kicking around is my old "Plan A" that I originally had settled on before JD's plane came up for sale - a II S stripped to the bare essentials besides a few upgrades like the titanium gear legs, 26' wing and a Jab 2200. So that's kind of why I'm keeping one eye sort of monitoring the Jabiru.
I love the SS but my need for a large 2-place that I originally had has gone away so an S would be a suitable replacement when that time comes.
That's a long ways off, years, but I want to plan starting now.
I think the 3300 might still be overkill for my needs even at my altitude especially built light and with the 26 footer. I fly solo virtually 98% of the time. And the cost will be in spittin' distance of the 912 anyway.
Well sorry for the long story, but that's why I'm still watching the Jabiru....
LS
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ls78705
> To: Titanaircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 7:20 AM
> Subject: [Titanaircraft] Re: Titan characteristics
>
>
>
>
> --- In Titanaircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Kimberly Panos" <kimberly@> wrote:
> >
> > It would likely be tolerable, but that's as far as I dare go. However, the earlier models had problems with the rotary disc valve shaft siezing, which of course results in an engine-out. You're also depending on a two stroke. While we never had a a single problem in the 200 hours we've run them, we still don't trust them based on other people's 2-stroke stories.
> >
> > --Kimberly
>
> BTW, it's worth mentioning that the 582 isn't really cost-effective anymore. Rotax and USD have pretty much priced it out of practicality given its new competitors.
>
> The base engine is now $6000. Once you add a gearbox (1000 to 1500 or more depending on which model you get), the radiators and etc., you're in spittin' distance of its 4-stroke competitors like the HKS and even the Jab 2200, both of which have lower long-term costs.
>
> So really the 582 doesn't make any financial sense anymore, unless you go used and even then.....
>
> The 503 is the only 2-stroke that's still cost effective and a practical solution (the 447 is on its way out and is virtually the same cost long-term as the 503).
>
> The 912 series are getting close to being impractical as well, but it's still a reasonable deal. I've heard that Rotax intends to raise the TBO to 2000 hours at some point, that'll increase the value of the engine too.
>
> So there's still a few years left on the 912 as far as cost/benefit ratio goes.
>
> Just depends on how fast Jabiru can keep fixing the 2200/3300 - these are well on their way to being pretty solid motors, especially for the titan. I still hear horror stories from time to time on the Jab list that make me a little timid about it, but it's just a matter of time before all that gets ironed out.
>
> The overhaul cost on even the 3300 is a tiny fraction of the Rotax overhaul cost. This makes the 3300 a keeper at TBO rather than a "throwaway" which the 912 almost is.....
>
> LS
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: v2twin
> > To: Titanaircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:48 PM
> > Subject: [Titanaircraft] Re: Titan characteristics
> >
> >
> > So a fresh 582 wouldn't tote the load either??
> >
> > --- In Titanaircraft@yahoogroups.com, "motionaero2" <mgpanos@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I know how tempting it is to go with a 503-powered T2 as there are many out there that are very reasonabley priced. However, that should be the clue, too. The 503-powered T2 is at best a 2-seat plane on very cool days (less than 60), low altitude and with standard size or less people. As someone else mentioned, you will be at or very near WOT the whole flight, just because you need the hp to move the weight.
> > >
> > > Kimberly and I had a 618-powered T2 (the 618 was a 75hp version of the 582) and while it was fun to fly, it was only a 2-seater on days of under 70 degress. Any warmer than that and we had a very long takeoff roll and a shallow climb. We converted that some plane to a Jabiru 2200 and that resulted in a very fun plane to fly. Flying solo with the 618, I would see 500fpm climb (5000msl and a gravity-challenged pilot) and a cruise speed of 90-92 indicated. With the Jabiru 2200, I flew around all the time with the 100mph ASI pegged at over 100, and the climb was in the 900fpm range. Using an GPS and triangulating, I found the cruise speed at 2900 rpm was at or over 110 mph.
> > >
> > > Get a Jabiru 2200 or 3300 or Rotax 912s. Or, if you buy a 503-powered one, plan to convert to a Jabiru 2200.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Titanaircraft@yahoogroups.com, "v2twin" <v2twin@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the replies so far, very helpful. I've been flying a Piper Arrow 200 for the last few years, before that a number of Cherokees although I have owned three Ercoupes and three Tri-Pacers (all glide like a brick), soled a Cessna 182 and 310D on my 16th birthday, so I don't think the responsiveness of the Titan over the Challenger would be an issue. I fly off a 2500 ft grass strip in North Ga at about 1500 ft elevation. I think I am narrowing in on the Titan II, but not the stretch or SS model. I see a number of these equipped with the 503. Is that enough motor to carry two pax off a field like this?
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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